Sunday, 15 February 2015

Jeffrey Sloan This is dynamite. I'd heard about breeders mixing in pit to get a more energetic dog, and suspected there was pit in this Malinois from the look of him, but had no evidence, only s hunch based on experience.

Gwendolyn Hanan
Yesterday at 6:06am
I guess we have all seen this tragedy. I have some definite opinions about what went on and why, but I am too involved and biased. So here is what I think, what do you all think?? And don't we have a couple Mal people on here?? What is your take??
This “malinois” K9 Jango , is at least ¼ pit bull. Many Mal breeders regularly breed a pit into a line then breed it out and this K9 would be the result they sought. Looks 75% like a Mal, enough to get by but supposedly the pitadded “fight drive” and “muscle”.
This child’s demise is what it added.
I saw one GSD PD K9 attack a child visiting the home and the handler shot it himself because for the dog to have done so meant there was something irreparably wrong with it.
When departments began the method of allowing the K9 to live at home with the handler and family, it worked out well and did not result in “bad bites” and the type of mauling that happened in this article was non existent.
RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PIT OUT CROSSES BEGAN SHOWING UP IN THE POLICE K9 MARKET. As soon as they did, so did the mauling and bad bites on children and elderly and even handlers. I noticed it around 2010. Might have started sooner.
Any PD that allows one of these mixes into its’ K9 program is begging to be sued into oblivion. They send these dogs out to make bite apprehensions and if the pit-ness part kicks in, they will be unable to get an out. (K9 release on the command). This WILL show up and cause problems with certifications if the K9 unit certifies with legitimate orgs like USPCA and NAPWDA, who require a verbal out, PERIOD.
The photos show
K9 Jango
traditional Malinios
½ mal ½ pit cross breeds
screen shot of Mal breeders page
K9 Jango is what the offspring of one of those ½ and ½ mixes - when bred back to a full Mal- will look like.
You can find pits mixed with everything here, Disgusting.
Like · 
  • 4 people like this.
  • M.j. Brandt Wow. I did not know that. I always loved the looks of the Belgian MaLinois. Not a breed I cared to own, but liked them none the less. I had NO idea they were mixing them with pits. Are there any pure, non pit infiltrtaed, Mals being bred? Very suspicious if this dog had pit in him.
    Yesterday at 7:57am · Edited · Like · 3
  • Gabriel Barros I had no clue of this practice! And I thought a Malinois was a Malinois.
    Yesterday at 7:43am · Like · 4
  • Tracy Caldwell Insanity!
    Yesterday at 8:55am · Like · 3
  • Dusty Brown Thanks for sharing
    I remember way back when they used to use the really big GSDS and stopped because of the damage inflicted, I do believe it was in Md and fear of law suits. I do agree with this Mal having a pig head. Do you think the truth will come out?
    Yesterday at 9:03am · Like · 3
  • M.j. Brandt The original article says it is a German shepherd. Pit activists will never agree to calling out these breeders. According to them, if it mauls or kills, it is NOT a pit. 
    Yesterday at 9:40am · Like · 3
  • Gabriel Barros I believe the AKC is pushing for DNA to positively identify pure breed dogs. Will mandatory DNA testing prevent this practice?
    17 hrs · Like
  • Thomas McCartney I e-mailed them and this is the answer the 
    U of Cal Davis responded with:

    Hello Thomas,

    You are correct the DNA test we offer is for parent verification/genetic marker report is used to verify parentage of an animal when the parents are provided or as permanent identification (DNA fingerprint).
    The test will not provide you with specific information, such as breed, coat color or disease.

    https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog.php
    *******************************************************************************************
    There is NO DNA test anywhere that can reliably test for breed, only for parentage and specific identity, this according to the U of Cal Davis in CA.

    In fact all companies such as the wisdom panal that test for DNA in dogs specifically say they do NOT test for pit bull DNA as the capability to do so does not exist yet.

    As well it is widely acknowledged that any test purporting to be able to determine dog breed or type is wildly inaccurate and useless.!
    *******************************************************************************************
    Let’s take a closer look at this myth that a pit bull cannot be identified without the use of DNA tests:

    And that science will begin with the Mars Wisdom DNA test. Let’s see what that company has to say about their DNA test, shall we?
    “Does Wisdom Panel® test for “Pit-bull”?

    The term “Pit-bull” is a bit of a misnomer and does not refer to a single, recognized breed of dog, but rather to a genetically diverse group of breeds which are associated by certain physical traits. Pit-bull-type dogs have historically been bred by combining guarding-type breeds with terriers for certain desired characteristics. As such they may retain many genetic similarities to their original breeds and other closely related breeds.

    Due to the genetic diversity of this group, Mars Veterinary cannot build a DNA profile to genetically identify every dog that may be visually classified as a Pit-bull.

    When these types of dogs are tested with the Wisdom Panel®, we routinely detect various quantities of the component purebred dogs including the American Staffordshire Terrier, Boston Terrier, Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Mastiff, Bullmastiff, Boxer, Bulldog, and various other Terriers. 

    Additionally, there are often other breeds outside of the Guard and Terrier groups identified in the mix depending on each dog’s individual ancestry.”

    Let’s look at the results with the information that the testing company provided to us:
    1. significant Boxer with some Bulldog
    2. distant traces of Smooth Fox Terrier
    3. significant Chihuahua with some Cocker Spaniel
    4. some Rottweiler and Boston Terrier
    5. some German Shepherd Dog and distant traces of Affenpinscher
    6. some Chinese Shar-Pei and distant traces of Rottweiler
    7. some American Staffordshire Terrier and Australian Cattle Dog
    8. distant traces of Basset Hound, Dalmatian and Pug
    9. significant American Staffordshire Terrier and distant traces of Boxer
    10. some German Shepherd Dog and distant traces of Basset Hound, Norwegian Elkhound and Samoyed
    11. distant traces of Basset Hound, Dalmatian, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier and Wire Fox Terrier
    12. some Rottweiler and distant traces of Clumber Spaniel, German Wirehaired Pointer and Newfoundland
    13. some Boston Terrier and distant traces of Bulldog
    14. distant traces of Borzoi, Brussels Griffon, Dachshund, English Cocker Spaniel and Samoyed
    15. some Boxer and distant traces of Bernese Mountain Dog, Briard, Dalmatian and Welsh Springer Spaniel
    16.distant traces of Beagle, Boxer, Bulldog, Chesapeake Bay Retriever, Dalmatian, Mastiff and Whippet

    Breed identification DNA tests are a sure-fire way to make money for those who sell them, including veterinarians who are paid for product endorsement.
    But do they work?

    No. In fact, the results shown here are common: a pure-breed dog comes back as being a vague pastiche of three or four breeds.

    Breed DNA tests are not too different from Gypsy Fortune telling, Fortune Cookies, the I-Ching, Numerology and Tarot Card reading: If you give a vague-enough answer, the believers will rationalize whatever result you give them, pounding the square peg into the round hole.

    Please pick out a dog show to attend. Any dog show. They are held in every state, every weekend . They are all judged on a visual identification system.
    Every dog show ever held has been judged on a visual identification system. Judges not only identify breeds but also minute deviations from breed standard. Watch the judges work.

    Humans are capable of this and do it all the time. You can pick out a Poodle or a Pug, Irish Setter or Wolfhound, Corgi or Chihuahua but you have difficulty identifying a breed that you state is anywhere from 5% to 40% of the dogs in America?
    The material that I have linked to is very clear that the ASPCA is telling us that their shelter volunteers can correctly identify pit bulls 96% of the time.

    Here’s the point: The NCRC uses the DNA when it is convenient to do so. It knows full well that the test does not test for “pit bull” and will often pick it up as other breeds, but it does not tell its readers.

    It then uses the mix of other breeds to declare the dogs not pit bulls. Then it uses this sham of an experiment as cited research in their fatality reports to prove they can’t identify pit bulls.
    Dog Tests
    Canine TestsFor breed specific tests click breed below:Alaskan Husky | Alaskan Klee Kai | Alaskan...
    VGL.UCDAVIS.EDU
    10 hrs · Like · 2
  • Dusty Brown It would not matter much Gabe, DNA test are faulty when proving breed although they are accurate when proving parentage. In the bigger scheme of things, many of the Dutchies and Mals used by the legal and military system are crossbred, they don't care about pedigree but whether the dog in front of them can do the job.
    10 hrs · Like · 4
  • Gabriel Barros I think parentage would be good enough.
    7 hrs · Like
  • Thomas McCartney Well in this case parentage would be insufficient to answer the question if it has any pit in it unless you knew the breed of the parents and all you were doing was confirming that parentage.Unless you had pure breed certification in place of the parents the DNA test would be useless in determining their breed.
    31 mins · Like
  • Jeffrey Sloan This is dynamite. I'd heard about breeders mixing in pit to get a more energetic dog, and suspected there was pit in this Malinois from the look of him, but had no evidence, only s hunch based on experience.
    20 mins · Like
  • Pamela Kafirfarm Liner creating a real killing machine..I had no idea they would breed apit to a Malinois..that to me seems wrong...
    19 mins · Like
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